The second question is about corps and army units of the Finnish Isthmus army. Especially army/corps AA and ATY units. Do anyone have a list? For the time 18 June - 10 July.
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von Adler |
Finnish armoured trains and OoB? |
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I am building a bit on a historical re-make of SSIs Viipuir scenario, and it seems like the Finns had their two armoured trains (PsJuna 1 and PsJuna 2) on the Karelian Isthmus during the Continuation War (mainly for protecting railroad junctions against air attack). My question is, were they in any way involved in the fighting around Viipuri? I would love to add a Finnish armoured train to the scenario.
The second question is about corps and army units of the Finnish Isthmus army. Especially army/corps AA and ATY units. Do anyone have a list? For the time 18 June - 10 July. Adlerkorps, the page for the Adlerkorps Equipment file, including all scenarios and campaigns made for it! |
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Armorboot |
Re: Finnish armoured trains and OoB? | ||
Quote: Highly possible because it was one of the two specific locations (or areas) that the Russian's high command had pinpointed to penetrate. On the last month of the war (i.e. March), most (or perhaps all) Finnish airforce were thrown in to fighting around bay Viipuri, so I'm quite sure that there were massive air combat and/or ground-to-air defences. Quote: Wow, this is a very tough one GWAMB |
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von Adler |
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I am referreing to the continuation war, ie 18 June-10 July 1944.
Adlerkorps, the page for the Adlerkorps Equipment file, including all scenarios and campaigns made for it! |
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Armorboot |
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Opsss... But I still think Viipuir will be a high key point for any party to fight for because it is probably the only railway exchange point to link NW territory (Finnish side) to SE (Russian Side) territory.
So whoever losses this point means they will have to transport their supplies and logistic through tougher terrain elsewhere - slow and yet difficult to protect. But I will keep a look out on the military strength as you have request GWAMB |
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Armorboot |
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Hey Adler,
I do have some broken pieces of information pertaining to the military strength (??) of Finland during that period of time. Hope it may help: ARMOUR UNIT Finnish army had a single Armoured Division ("Panssaridivisioona") formed in 1942/1943. The Armoured Division had 2 Tank Brigades, 1 Jager Brigade ("Jkriprikaati"), 1 Assault Gun Battalion equipped with "Sturmis" and an Independent Assault Gun Company armed with BT-42s. The most potent part of the division was the Assault Gun Battalion equipped with German StuG III's (Sturmgeschtz 40 Ausf G / Sturmgeschtz III Ausf G). The battalion had three companies comprised of three platoons each. Each platoon had 3 Sturmis (although 3rd platoon got its assault guns only later) and the Company commander had one Sturmgeschtz. One Sturmi was reserved as a spare. Finland bought 30 Stug III's in 1943 and 29 more in 1944. Finnish Stug's destroyed 82 Soviet tanks while own losses were 8 assault-guns during the intensive battles of summer 1944. During Continuation War, captured Soviet armor was also widely used along German Assault guns purchased in 1943/1944. ANTI-TANK WEAPONS Close range anti-tank fighting. Great contribution to the succesful defensive battles on the Karelian Isthmus in the summer of 1944 were made by the German supplied close range anti-tank weapons: Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck. Source from: Refs: Puolustusvoimien Panssarikalusto 1918-1989. Laguksen rynnkktykit. Rynnkktykkipataljoona 1943-1944. / Erkki Kkel. WSOY 1996. AA GUNS 7.62mm AA-MG: 121 20mm AA-gun: 90+76 40mm AA-gun: 100+72 76mm AA-gun: 81+45 Note: I suppose the "+" between numbers referred to Post Winter War quantities "+" quantities purchase thereafter. Source from: Finland Air defence Heritage AIRFORCE The most important fighters available during the Continuation War (1941-1944) were a) Brewster B-239 ("Buffalo"), b) Messerschmitt Bf 109G, c) Morane-Saulnier MS 406, d) Curtiss 75A (P-36) and f) Fiat G.50. BREWSTER F2A-1 "BUFFALO" SPECIFICATIONS Wingspan: 35ft Length: 26ft height: 11ft 11 Weight: 3785pd (empty), 5040pd (max) engine: 950hp wright cyclone R-1820-34 armament: 1 X 0.30cal. MG + 1 X 0.50cal. MG in fuselage 2 X 0.50cal. MG in wing Max speed: 311 mph @ 18000ft Service ceiling: 33000ft range: 1000 miles BREWSTER B-239 SPECIFICATIONS Wingspan: 10.67m Length: 8.03m height: 3.66m Weight: 2020kg (empty), 2415 (typical) engine: 950hp wright cyclone R-1820-34 armament: 1 X 0.30cal. MG + 3 X 0.50cal. MG Max speed: 480 km/h @ 4750m, 428km/h @ sea level Service ceiling: 9900m. Climb to 3000m with 4min12, 5000m with 7min10 range: 1350 miles with 390km/h cruise speed Source from: Brewster Model 239 by Kalevi Keskinen, Kari Stenman and Klaus Niska. - Suomen Ilmavoimien Historia 1. Apali Oy. 4th edition. 1995. Lentjn nkkulma 2 = Pilot's viewpoint 2 by Jukka Raunio [Jukka Raunio]. 1993. - 255 p. ISBN 951-96866-0-6 F2A Buffalo in action by Jim Maas. - Squadron/signal publications, inc. Aircraft Number 81. 1987. Hope the above helps GWAMB |
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von Adler |
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Thankyou, the AA gun numbers are very useful.
Adlerkorps, the page for the Adlerkorps Equipment file, including all scenarios and campaigns made for it! |
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Cooldata |
Re: Finnish armoured trains and OoB? | ||
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I have not heard of the armored trains participating the fighting.
Corps/army units...hmm. This is in addition of what I posted last year, is it not? I don't think I have anything of value, but are you familiar with this site? Should have something at least of the AA, like anything over 40 mm not being used by front line units.![]() |
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Armorboot |
Re: Finnish armoured trains and OoB? | ||
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Hey Adler,
I called one of my friends about your requirement. He later email me a very big chunk of info that might be useful to you. I made some re-arrangement, hopefully those data can lighten up your days. Hey for you only ... err ... and also the use of your icon PART 1: Infantry Troops (Division Level) THE NUMBER OF MEN IN ARMS: Jun 1941: 476,000 Oct 1942: 376,000 Aug 1944: 531,000 COMBAT FORMATIONS: ARMY 1st Division: Consists of a. 35th Infantry Regiment, b. 56th Infantry Regiment, c. 60th Infantry Regiment, d. 5th Field Artillery Regiment e. 8th Light Detachment Designation 1941: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga and Eastern Carelia 1942 to 1943: Not documented 1944: Staion in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga 2nd Division: Consists of a. 7th Infantry Regiment, b. 28th Infantry Regiment, c. 46th Infantry Regiment, d. 15th Field Artillery Regiment e. 7th Light Detachment Designation 1941 to 1944: Station in Carelian Isthmus 3rd Division: Consists of a. 11th Infantry Regiment, b. 32nd Infantry Regiment, c. 53rd Infantry Regiment, d. 16th Field Artillery Regiment e. 5th Light Detachment Designation 1941 to 1943: Station in Uhtua 1944: Station in Uhtua and Carelian Isthmus 4th Division: Consists of a. 5th Infantry Regiment, b. 25th Infantry Regiment, c. 46th Infantry Regiment, d. 1st Field Artillery Regiment e. 9th Light Detachment Designation 1941: Station in Carelian Isthmus and Eastern Carelia 1942 to 1943: Not documented 1944: Station in Carelian Isthmus 5th Division: Consists of a. 2nd Infantry Regiment, b. 23rd Infantry Regiment, c. 44th Infantry Regiment, d. 3rd Field Artillery Regiment e. 4th Light Detachment Designation 1941: Station in Svir River, Eastern Carelia, and Carelia North of Lake Ladoga 1942 to 1943: Station in Svir River 1944: Station in Svir River, Eastern Carelia, and Carelia North of Lake Ladoga 6th Division: Consists of a. 12th Infantry Regiment, b. 33rd Infantry Regiment, c. 54th Infantry Regiment, d. 14th Field Artillery Regiment e. 3rd Light Detachment Designation 1941: Station in Salla 1942: Station in Maaselk Isthmus as 12th Brigade 1943: Station in Maaselk Isthmus as Division again 1944: Station in Maaselk Isthmus and Carelian Isthmus 7th Division: Consists of a. 9th Infantry Regiment, b. 30th Infantry Regiment, c. 51st Infantry Regiment, d. 2nd Field Artillery Regiment e. 15th Light Detachment Designation 1941: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga, Eastern Carelia, and Svir River 1942 to 1943: Station in Svir River 1944: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga, Eastern Carelia, and Svir River 8th Division: Consists of a. 4th Infantry Regiment, b. 24th Infantry Regiment, c. 45th Infantry Regiment, d. 11th Field Artillery Regiment Designation 1941: Station in Carelian Isthmus, Eastern Carelia, and Maaselk Isthmus 1942 to 1943: Station in Svir River 1944: Station in Svir River, Eastern Carelia, and Carelia North of Lake Ladoga 10th Division: Consists of a. 1st Infantry Regiment, b. 22nd Infantry Regiment, c. 43rd Infantry Regiment, d. 9th Field Artillery Regiment e. 12th Light Detachment Designation 1941 to 1944: Station in Carelian Isthmus 11th Division: Consists of a. 8th Infantry Regiment, b. 29th Infantry Regiment, c. 50th Infantry Regiment, d. 4th Field Artillery Regiment e. 10th Light Detachment Designation 1941: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga, Eastern Carelia, and Svir River 1942 to 1943: Station in Svir River 1944: Station in Svir River and Carelia North of Lake Ladoga 12th Division: Consists of a. 26th Infantry Regiment, b. 47th Infantry Regiment, c. 55th Infantry Regiment, d. 7th Field Artillery Regiment e. 1st Light Detachment Designation 1941 to 1942: Station in Carelian Isthmus 1943: Disbanded. 14th Division: Consists of a. 10th Infantry Regiment, b. 31st Infantry Regiment, c. 52nd Infantry Regiment, d. 18th Field Artillery Regiment e. 2nd Light Detachment Designation 1941 to 1944: Station in Rukajrvi 15th Division: Consists of a. 15th Infantry Regiment, b. 36th Infantry Regiment, c. 57th Infantry Regiment, d. 12th Field Artillery Regiment e. 16th Light Detachment Designation 1941 to 1944: Station in Carelian Isthmus 17th Division: Consists of a. 13th Infantry Regiment, b. 34th Infantry Regiment, c. 8th Field Artillery Regiment d. 19th Light Detachment Designation 1941: Station in Eastern Carelia, Svir River, and Hang 1942 to 1943: Station in Svir River 1944: Station in Svir River and Carelia North of Lake Ladoga 18th Division: Consists of a. 6th Infantry Regiment, b. 27th Infantry Regiment, c. 48th Infantry Regiment, d. 19th Field Artillery Regiment e. 6th Light Detachment Designation 1941 to 1944: Station in Carelian Isthmus 19th Division a. 16th Infantry Regiment, b. 37th Infantry Regiment, c. 58th Infantry Regiment, d. 10th Field Artillery Regiment e. 18th Light Detachment Designation 1941: Station in Carelian Isthmus 1942: Disbanded Armored Division: Consists of a. 1 X Jaeger Brigade, b. 1 X Armoured Brigade, c. 1 X Assualt Gun Battalion Designation 1941: Not documented 1942 to 1943: Station in Eastern Carelia 1944: Station in Eastern Carelia and Carelian Isthmus con't next post... GWAMB |
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Armorboot |
Re: Finnish armoured trains and OoB? | ||
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PART 1: Infantry Troops (Sub-Division/Brigade Level)
1st Jaeger Brigade 1941: Station in Svir River, Carelia North of Lake Ladoga, and Eastern Carelia 1942: Maaselk Isthmus 1943: Merged with Armoured Division 2nd Jaeger Brigade 1941: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga, and Eastern Carelia 1942: Maaselk Isthmus 1943: Disbanded Cavalry Brigade 1941: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga 1942 to 1943: Not documented. 1944: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga and Carelian Isthmus K Brigade 1941: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga Unconfirmed Formation (J Division) 1941: Kestenga 1942: Disbanded. Strength dispatched to 3rd Division and 6th Division 3rd Brigade 1941 to 1943: Not documented 1944: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga and Carelian Isthmus 15th Brigade 1941 to 1942: Not existed 1943: Station in Eastern Carelia 1944: Station in Svir River, Carelia North of Lake Ladoga, and Eastern Carelia 19th Brigade 1941 to 1942: Not existed. Formed on 16 Oct 1943 from 16th Infantry Regiment 1943 to 1944: Station in Carelian Isthmus 20th Brigade 1941 to 1942: Not existed. Formed on 16 Oct 1943 from 22nd Infantry Regiment 1944: Station in Eastern Carelia, Carelia North of Lake Ladoga, and Carelian Isthmus 21st Brigade 1941 to 1943: Not existed 1944: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga Frontier Guards Jaeger Brigade 1944: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga Onega Coastal Brigade 1942 to 1944: Station in Eastern Carelia Ladoga Coastal Brigade 1942 to 1944: Station in Carelia North of Lake Ladoga 1st Coastal Division 1944: Station in Carelian Isthmus * Two Tribal Warrior Battalions (AHSP & VHSP) were formed out of volunteers and conscripts of Carelian origin, who lived in Finland before the war. Also Finns were used to put the battalions to full strenght. Other non-Finnish units in the Puolustusvoimat during the Continuation War were SFB, Swedish volunteer battalion, operational in 1941, Tribal Battalion 3, which was formed out of POWs who were Carelians or Ingrians and spoke Finnish, JR 200, an Estonian regiment, which was formed in 1944 and later returned to defend Estonia against Soviets. To be con't next post ... |
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Armorboot |
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PART 2: Weaponary
FINNISH FIELD ARTILLERY (1941 to 1944): 75mm ~ 90mm Cannon: Jul 1941: 883 Jan 1944: 1090 Sep 1944: 839 105mm ~ 122mm Cannon: Jul 1941: 112 Jan 1944: 136 Sep 1944: 120 105mm ~ 122mm Howitzer Jul 1941: 166 Jan 1944: 482 Sep 1944: 579 155mm Cannon Jul 1941: 12 Jan 1944: 12 150mm ~ 155mm Jul 1941: 166 Jan 1944: 462 Sep 1944: 499 203mm ~ 280mm Howitzer Jul 1941: 47 Jan 1944: 47 Sep 1944: 22 Note: There were over 50 different types of artillery pieces and 20 different calibers in the Continuation War. This caused considerable problems with ammunition. Most numerous light cannons were 75 K 17 (US), 76 K 02 (Soviet/French) , 76 RK 27 (Soviet). Most numerous heavy cannon was 105 K 29 (French/Polish). Most numerous light howitzers were 105 H 37 (Finnish) and 122 H 10-30 (Soviet). Most numerous heavy howitzers were 152 H 09-30 (Soviet) and 155 H 17 (French). Before and during the Continuation War 607 artillery pieces were bought from Germany. 842 guns were captured from the enemy in the Continuation War. Total artillery losses were 318 guns, most of them during the retreat in 1944. FINNISH ARMORED FORCES (1941 to 1944): T26A/B/C: 114 (45mm armament. Captured from enemy) T-28: 7 (76mm armament. Captured fromenemy) T34-76/85: 4 X T34/76, 9 X T34/85 (76mm and 85mm armament. Captured from enemy) KV-1: 2 (76mm armament. Captured from enemy). BT-5/7: Unrecorded (45mm armament. Captured from enemy) BT-42 Assault Gun: 18 (114mm armament. Captured from enemy) Stug-III Ausf. G: 59 (75mm armament. Purchased from Germany) Pzkfpw IV Ausf. J: 15 (75mm armament. Purchased from Germany) FINNISH ANTI-TANK UNITS (1941 to 1944): Antitank Grenade: Unknown quantity PstK/34 Anti-Tank Cannon-25: 22 (25mm cal.) PstK/36 Cannon-37: 164 (37mm cal.) PstK/40 Cannon-75: Unknown (75mm cal.) 45mm Cal. Cannon: 55 (45mm cal. Captured from enemy) 14mm cal. Anti-Tank Rifle: Unknown quantity LS/39 Anti-Tank Rifle: Unknown (20mm cal.) Panzerfaust Rocket Weapon: 25,000 Panzerschreck Bazooka: 1800 I hope the above info can do you some good GWAMB |
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von Adler |
Re: Finnish armoured trains and OoB? | ||
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Yes, I know it, but I havent checked that for OoBs.
Adlerkorps, the page for the Adlerkorps Equipment file, including all scenarios and campaigns made for it! |
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von Adler |
Re: Finnish armoured trains and OoB? | ||
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I did not see your posts until now, Armorboot. Absolutely awesome, this is excellent information, thankyou.
Adlerkorps, the page for the Adlerkorps Equipment file, including all scenarios and campaigns made for it! |
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Armorboot |
Re: Finnish armoured trains and OoB? | ||
GWAMB |
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